Every Tuesday for the past several years, Mohamad Manmohan, ChFC, CLU, has held a weekly team meeting for advisors in his district of Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.
Manmohan is an unorthodox and legendary leader who has mentored multiple Court of the Table and Top of the Table qualifiers. His ability to connect with, support and motivate advisors has been a catalyst for the agency’s continual growth.
In 2024, he showed his team a tool introduced by MDRT Masterclass leaders Susan Clemens and Jenn Pierce. Now, his meetings are even better, he said, and his team’s pursuit of the agency’s mission is even more cohesive.
‘Trifecta of collaboration’
Clements and Pierce, both certified business coaches and trainers with the company Optimal Outcome, are experienced in guiding field leaders, advisors and insurance agents to achieve greater results.
In their “Growing Sales” MDRT Center Masterclass, they emphasize how leaders often feel “stuck in the middle” — simultaneously pulled between the challenges and satisfaction levels of advisors, and the strategic goals and emphasis areas of the organization.
“Sometimes what your company wants doesn't seem to quite fit what your advisors want, and somebody always seems to be a little bit dissatisfied,” Clements said. “It's the nature of the industry, and the nature of human beings. There are so many people pulling and pushing and trying to get things from you.”
As Clements points out, a well-intentioned advisor might enter a conversation with their leader thinking, “Help me out. Help me grow. Help me learn. Connect me with resources. Help me get more business.”
Similarly, a well-intentioned leader might enter the same conversation thinking of “my experiences, my ideas, my thoughts on what the advisor should know," she said.
When conversations focus on narrow points of view, leadership problems often follow in the forms of indecision, vagueness, stress, lack of open communication and, eventually, declining advisor retention. “Getting unstuck is about getting out of your own way — zooming out, seeing the bigger picture and guiding advisors to do the same,” Clements said.
For a leader, the most beneficial mindset when talking to advisors is creating what Clements and Pierce call a “trifecta of collaboration.” The idea is that growth and success of all parties — leaders, advisors and the organization itself — are tied to the collective urge to answer one question: “What does the business need?”
A tool to bring teams together
To illustrate the different effectiveness levels of leader/advisor conversations, and to help leaders understand and embrace the big-picture collaboration required to reach the apex level, Clements and Pierce developed the Business Conversation Triangle.
“It helps leaders find balance, and it brings people together to focus on the common result of why they’re there,” Clements said.
As shown above, the triangle’s three points represent the points of view of the advisor, leader and organization. The arrows on the sides represent the interconnectivity among them. The area inside the triangle is separated into three layers — a worst-better-best hierarchy that begins at the bottom.
1. The base level is about the individual.
“At the base is you and the agent having a conversation, and that conversation is back and forth. For the advisor, it’s all about them. For the field leader, it might be all about them,” Clements said.
Imagine you’re holding a one-on-one meeting with an advisor who's behind pace on achieving a goal. As you sit down with that advisor, you know they need to set more appointments with new prospects and dedicate more effort targeting a specific market.
Here’s what a base-level conversation with the advisor might sound like, Clements said: "Look, you're behind on this goal. I need you to sell more. Tell me what's going on. Why aren't you selling more?"
At this level, one or both individuals are focused on themselves — what they want or need, what their ideas are, what they’ve done in the past — instead of genuinely listening to each other. The conversation isn’t open or collaborative, so it’s not productive, “but this is a level at which a lot of advisors will have a conversation with their field leader,” Clements said.
2. The middle level is about the leader and advisor together.
“This is where you're hearing each other, you're learning from each other and you're collaborating,” Clements said. It’s a two-way conversation where both the leader and advisor share thoughts freely, without fear of criticism, and both sides are open to new ideas.
Imagine the same one-on-one meeting with the struggling advisor. It might sound like this, she said: "Obviously, you need to get more sales to hit your goal. I have some ideas. I would like to hear what you think will work best, and then let's discuss them together so we can see how we can make more sales happen."
At this level, advisors and leaders work together to identify conflict and build trust. “It’s all about we — what we think, what we need," she said.
3. The top level is about common good for the business.
Conversations at this level have the foundation of collaboration from the middle level, plus the powerful point of view of the organization. Both leader and advisor move beyond what each other think, focusing instead on how they can work toward the best interests of the agency.
How does a top-of-the-triangle meeting with a struggling advisor sound? Says Clements: “It's more, ‘Let's take a look at how we can get our agency to have more sales. What would happen if you or your team could sell more? What sales need to happen for you to maximize your contracts? What does your business need to have happen? How will this work for our agency?’”
Agency-focused discussions are more objective than emotional, reducing the feeling among advisors that problems are personal. The conversations center around the business, not blame, as both sides identify the gap between where the agency is and where it needs to be. This leads the advisor to better identify priorities, and provides context for the advisor and leader to establish next steps together. “It causes people to think outside of themselves,” Clements said.
How would your conversations change?
After reviewing his notes from the “Growing Sales” Masterclass, Manmohan met with his team and talked about the value of embracing the top level of the Business Conversation Triangle. Manmohan said the team meeting was “really beautiful,” with advisors asking questions about the company’s point of view and considering new ways they could increase production. Also, he said the tool helped him realize he had been setting elevated expectations around some advisors’ activity.
“I think the Business Conversation Triangle is just fantastic,” Manmohan said.
What about your meetings and conversations with advisors? If you framed more discussions from the top of the triangle, from the organization’s point of view, how might they differ from your current approach?
Darin Painter is a freelance writer and editor in Strongsville, Ohio, USA, and owner of the content development business Writing Matters (www.writingmatters.com).
